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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:38 am 
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big hucker
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So I have been reading your exploits with the TALAS I as I try to rebuild mine. For some reason, with even way too high pressures on my positive chamber, I can compress the fork all the way down. In addition, the TALAS adjuster turns lock to lock, but with no action. Blown air seals? I can only find a TALAS III service kit, you have any idea if that is backwards compatible?

First off, let me say my TALAS I rebuild was my first jaunt into Fox TALAS land. ;) I"m certainly no expert (as with most things) but I'll be glad to help out if I can.

Is it the 32mm TALAS I? I'm curious so I can try to find the relevant diagrams and service kit part numbers.

When you turn the TALAS adjuster one way or the other, does it eventually hit a stop?

After servicing, by what method did you refill the IFP chamber?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:53 am 
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lurkin' kitty

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Yeah, it is a 32mm TALAS I.

The TALAS adjuster turns the appropriate number of clicks both directions and after opening the fort up, it appears that the shaft extends and retracts when the knob is turned.

As to the IFP, I went with the simple ball needle and it seemed to work as described, but zero or 150 psi seemed to make no difference.

Even with the fork inflated to 170 psi (double the recommended) it sinks all the way down under weight and is slow to rebound? Does that sound like an air seal issue? Just way to big of a volume to try and compress and ramp up?

I accidentally ordered a TALAS III seal kit, any thoughts if that is backwards compatible to the I?

One the other side of the fork, my low speed compression needle (the post under the adjuster knob) snapped off. Ever seen a replacement out there? Or should I just look into a whole new cap?

Sorry for the essay.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:04 am 
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big hucker
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On my TALAS I, I can set the travel adjuster to the minimum setting, compress the fork, and it stays at the lowest travel setting. Moving the TALAS knob in the opposite direction causes the fork to slowly extend to full travel. What you're describing does sound like an air seal issue. I remember seeing a thread where people were discussing the air flow within the TALAS mechanism. I'll see if I can find it again.

It appears the "TALAS I & II Seal kit" is part number 803-00-090.

Looks like the "TALAS III Seal kit" part number is 803-00-377.

If you ordered 803-00-090, do you mind sharing how much it cost and where you bought it?

Regarding the damper, here's a link to one of the RLC cartridge versions: https://googledrive.com/host/0Bxc99IsGY ... t_list.pdf

Can you describe which part is broken? I have some other part number spreadsheets and I might be able to identify the specific part that needs to be replaced. I've been through a cartridge dis-assembly and reassembly and it wasn't too bad. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:31 am 
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lurkin' kitty

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For the RLC post, its within the cap.

http://fcdn.EB.com/attachments/shocks ... llouts.gif

That diagram has it as the low speed compression adjuster needle. It got jammed once and then snapped of right above the seal.

I will have to get back to with which seal kit I got.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:08 pm 
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big hucker
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TALAS I Topcap (upper) Assembly (820-02-013): https://googledrive.com/host/0Bxc99IsGY ... 3_revB.pdf

TALAS I Lower Assembly (820-02-032): https://googledrive.com/host/0Bxc99IsGY ... 2_revA.pdf

I can't find the post regarding the TALAS air flow. I'll try to sketch it out from memory. May not have time to do so today...


Here's a parts list for the RLC topcap: http://service.foxracingshox.com/consum ... isting.pdf

I'm guessing you'll need part number 210-03-053 (Damping Adjust Part: Needle Co...). A direct call to FOX to verify and see if they have the part would probably be the best route.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:50 pm 
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lurkin' kitty

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Yeah, it appears I have the TALAS III seal kit... And by the looks of the internet that is all there is. PUSH wont even service the TALAS I or II for that reason.

I guess the next option is to get a Float spring and drop it in. Ever try that?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:57 pm 
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big hucker
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If I remember correctly, the talas lower assembly is the same in all models. That's where the "auto balancing" negative air spring lives. Replacing those seals might get the functionality back. Can't hurt to give it a try if the kit is already in the mail, right? ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:41 pm 
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big hucker
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I just got off the phone with Fox. I've been wanting to order some new crush washers and I decided to chat up the tech once I had him on the phone.

The TALAS lower assembly is the same for the TALAS I, II, and III. The rebuild kit for the TALAS III has all of the o-rings for the 32 and 34 model TALAS III. You will be able to rebuild the TALAS I and II lower assembly with this kit. Some of the o-rings may also work for the upper assembly. Fox can sell the kits directly to you for $15 + $8 shipping (UPS).

If anyone is interested in the crush washers, the tech said the aluminum crush washers can be re-used indefinitely but it's a good idea to have a spare one on-hand.

Aluminum crush washer for the damper: 241-01-002-C
Nylon crush washer for the TALAS side: 241-01-008

Fox charges $1.00 each. I ordered two of the aluminum washers ($2.00), six of the nylon washers ($6.00), and a seal kit ($15.00) to toss in the cabinet for future use. ;)

$23 plus an estimated shipping of $8. They're going to email an invoice and tracking number to me when it ships.

The tech (Josh) was super helpful and I'd highly recommend calling Fox directly if you get any push back from your LBS like I did.

Fox sales: (800) 369-7469 x4801

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:23 am 
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lurkin' kitty

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So in my fort I had a 036-01-009 in the position of both the Seal Main Piston (Upper) and Seal U Cup Float (Lower). I see this was later replaced with a 036-01-018, so I went ahead and swapped both of them out for the 018s I had in the pack. A lot of the o-rings were just a little off on the uppers, so I mainly did those big seals.

Unfortunately it did little to remedy my problem...

With 75 psi it will still bottom very easily and even with 170 psi, it has some initial firmness, but it just doesn't ramp up at all. I must be losing air to somewhere and I am trying to compress an uber over sized volume.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:08 am 
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big hucker
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Hmmm. At 75psi are you able to set the fork to a shorter travel, compress it, an the fork stays down?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:02 pm 
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big hucker
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Yeah, fate is funny sometimes... I take apart my fork so I can replace the damper and I decide to check out the TALAS side before I put the lowers back on. I set the TALAS adjuster rod to the lowest travel position, add an o-ring (to make it easier to see problems), compress the lower assembly into the uppers, and this is what happens when I let go:



*sigh*

It wasn't doing that after I overhauled it. Not sure why it's doing it now...

Good thing I ordered the seal kit. Otherwise I'd be paying another $8 in shipping costs...

RedPanda, if this is the same issue you were having I'd like to know if it went away after replacing the seals on the TALAS lower assembly.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:11 pm 
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lurkin' kitty

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I havent played with the left side with the lowers off yet, only been doing my troubleshooting fully assembled unfortunately...

No matter the position of the TALAS knob, the travel does not change.

Based on that I am guessing I need to get into the lower and do some seals.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:22 am 
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big hucker
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Ah, I thought you replaced the seals on the lower assembly. I suspect that's most likely the culprit. When the fork is compressed, I believe the two holes in the talas shaft move past the urethane o-ring in the lower piston bolt (see above linked diagrams) to equalize the pressure between the positive and negative chambers. Somehow the negative air is leaking back into the positive chamber and causing it to expand (forcing the lower assembly to extend out of the uppers).

It looks like the urethane o-ring in the lower piston bolt and the seal around the "lower outer piston" are what ultimately separate the two chambers. Those are also the only two that move against metal (causing wear). But, if I have it apart, I'm going to disassemble the lower assembly and replace all of the o-rings and seals.

And, when this thing is working perfectly, I'm gonna sell it and buy a Reba or SID. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:20 pm 
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big hucker
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Click on photo to enlarge...

Image

TALAS III rebuild kit at top, TALAS I lower assembly diagram in the middle, and all the pieces and parts in the tray at the bottom. Just need to get the time to replace all of the seals.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:01 am 
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big hucker
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Fixed it! Super easy. As I suspected, there was a leak between the TALAS lower assembly (negative air chamber) and the upper assembly (into the positive air chamber).

I first removed the urethane o-ring from the lower piston bolt (diagram here).

Here's a photo of the lower piston bolt. You can see the urethane o-ring (green in this picture) in the top of the bolt. I forgot to take photos so this is one I stole from another site (muahahahahaha!).

Image

In the photo below, the o-ring on the left is a new one from the kit and the o-ring on the right was what I pulled out of my TALAS. Old one looks nasty and anemic...

Image

Let me tell you, it's a pain in the ass to get that new o-ring seated in the gland without it shooting down the neck of the lower piston bolt. Get yourself lots of light, a couple of good picks, and take your time...

The "T-port shaft" on the TALAS upper assembly (diagram here) slides into the port on the lower piston bolt. At the bottom of the t-port shaft is a "t-port end cap" with an o-ring. I pulled it off and replaced it with one from the kit.

Here's a photo of the t-port end cap with the o-ring removed (not my photo).

Image

After replacing only those two o-rings, I decided to put it back together and see if it made a difference. Lo and behold...



I can dial the TALAS down to the minimum travel setting and compress the lower assembly into the stanchion and it stays put. When I turn the dial to let the travel out, it jumps just as it did before.

Image

Total extension is about 35mm. This is a 90mm-130mm adjustable fork. It gets pretty hard to compress the lower so I probably didn't compress it all the way in for the extra 5mm. Shouldn't be a problem once it's back together.

:banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:27 am 
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lurkin' kitty

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Thanks Marpilli, that was the culprit! I hadn't checked in there before, but once I did I realized I only had about 1/4 of the original o-ring! Swapped it out and everything was working as it should. Thanks again for the support!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:33 pm 
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big hucker
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You're welcome. I was wondering if you'd had any time to mess with it. My leak was minor and that's probably why it was slowly moving upwards. Yours was obviously more severe. :)

Did you replace the RLC topcap (broken compression needle)? Or, did you take some other route?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:51 pm 
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lurkin' kitty

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Once the post on the compression adjuster snapped, it started to seep oil from the fork. The decision to just seal it off to keep out the oil was made, and I applied some super glue to the broken post/hole. The leaking stopped and the fork operates normally. Maybe someday I will get a new cap, but in the meantime the fork is sprucing up a buddies $600 motobecane as he weighs his options of being a tri-geek or a real mountain biker.


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:19 am 
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lurkin' kitty

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Hey bud. Had the forks apart again. The bolt on the list was completely undone. I had hoped that did the job as I was unable to see how to get at the screw you mentioned.

When it came to testing the forks out I think I got air stuck somewhere so they were locked. Pretty much had to do a full service as I wasn't sure what I had done.

Any kind of explanation on how to get at the screw that caused the problem with yours very much appreciated. Oh forgot to mention the talas adjuster now correctly stops on either way, although it does not adjust the travel still


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