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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:04 pm 
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friendly kitty
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A place to share info, tips, ideas on all things round...
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Been building wheels since 16, and always search for new ideas.
Here's a DIY trick for tubeless that I've found helpful.*

Image

Before mounting a new tire, coat each inner sidewall / bead, allow to dry, repeat.
Mount onto rim using a tube, and let sit overnight.
Pop one bead, remove tube, install valve with removable core, add 2 scoops sealant, inflate and do the Stan's shake.

So far, I've done 4 tires, and none have weeped or burped (Ra-Ra (2.4), RK, Saguaro & Gato.)
Believe that success with tubeless is all about PSI, and properly sealing the spoke holes by cleaning and using good tape.
While I don't feel that doing the above eliminates torn sidewalls or burping, it does help to hold PSI,
and in the past 6 months I've not torn a sidewall or burped a tire. Karma, or dumb luck may be the case, yet PSI is key.

Tubeless should not be so damn difficult, yet often is, due to the lack of standards, thanks to ERTRO, and Mavic.
* Using non-UST tires on Flows, or P-35's, and add 2 oz. of sealant every couple months.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:44 pm 
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pussy
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Thank you W, great tips. I might go tubeless with these tricks this coming season...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:55 pm 
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grumpeh kitty!
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When I install or refill a tubeless tire, I smear sealant over the bead before airing up. This plus 1 round of Stan's shakes usually results in an air-tight bead.

I'll try that Elmer's glue trick next time I install new tires.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:28 pm 
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revolting kitty
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Good idea - you still do it with UST rim/tires?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:13 pm 
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grumpeh kitty!
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Wmac wrote:
Good idea - you still do it with UST rim/tires?


The sealant on the bead? I don't know, I have only mounted non-tubeless tires to non-tubeless rims. I use the gorilla tape ghetto method.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:23 pm 
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revolting kitty
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There are some UST tires that are notorious for weeping - this might help - although, depending on how much glue is necessary, it may negate going with one of those tires.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:34 pm 
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grumpeh kitty!
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I've read where some folks use Shoe Goo instead of glue for the same purpose.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:39 pm 
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friendly kitty
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Wmac wrote:
Good idea - you still do it with UST rim/tires?

Not done on true UST, only on regular, and tubeless ready tires like Schwalbe's EVO.
IME true UST tires have beefier sidewalls, designed not to leak air.
Believe P-35's are UST "ready", yet without a sealed spoke bed aren't considered true UST.
Stan's rims are designed to work with regular tires, and when building my first tubeless setup,
chose this path based on available info and tire choices.

Know that tire shops apply a bead sealant before mounting a new car/truck tire.
Had a new Ra-Ra 2.25 lose PSI, and weep sealant through it's sidewalls for nearly a week,
that caused the tire to burp a few times, and for me to try the above, YMMV.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:19 am 
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yappin' kitty
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random walk wrote:
I've read where some folks use Shoe Goo instead of glue for the same purpose.
shoe goo would be a LOT harder to remove from a rim than rubber cement. that stuff is amazing. oh, it comes in black, so that might look better.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:35 pm 
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ridin' dirty kitty!
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my wheels and tires are both true UST. I use a single 2oz bottle in each, i set my beads with a hand pump, and do the shake. i *have* burped, but that was figuring out pressures. my front hasn't lost air since november.

my rear, however, is a diy project in the making. ill post pics soon.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:25 pm 
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grumpeh kitty!
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Bill in Houston wrote:
shoe goo would be a LOT harder to remove from a rim than rubber cement. that stuff is amazing. oh, it comes in black, so that might look better.


The guy that does this suggested thinning it with mineral spirits, xylene or similar. Also, I think you're only supposed to coat the inside, not the bead.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:58 am 
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yappin' kitty
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oh, okay, yes, thinning it (which i have not ever tried) and then painting the inside of the sidewalls would cut down on weeping, i reckon. works for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:21 am 
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yappin' kitty
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Ok, I may sound dumb but here it goes.

Are you painting the inside of the tire or the outside bead? In your directions it says inner bead/sidewall. That is a bit confusing to me. The bead is on the outside?? Or are we talking about the inner bead of the rim? Please edumacate me.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:03 pm 
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friendly kitty
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Have coated the inside of the tire sidewalls, and coated the tire beads both inside & out.
Not applied to the rim. My thought here is to prevent the tire from weeping, and to seat
the tire more tightly onto the rim. [Ra-Ra's with the grey bead leak like a sieve.]


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:32 pm 
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yappin' kitty
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Oh, gotcha.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:17 am 
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pussy
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This trick saved my sanity! Thanks W!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:53 am 
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ridin' dirty kitty!
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OK here's my dilemma.

Image

This is a mavic 819 UST that I have had about half a year. Didn't get the set new, bought them used. You can see remnants of permatex on the rim; the guy I got the wheelset from told me that there was a slow leak around the stem and he used the permatex to seal it up. (The leak persisted when I first ran the wheel too, usually dropping half my air in 10-12 miles.)

Lo and behold, when I buy new tires I decide to put in new stems, and had no reason to think anything was sketchy...so imagine my surprise when I remove the permatex and find this big-ass chip missing from the inner rim. The chip clearly exceeds the area a stans stem will cover.

My idea is to hit up the parts store and get some of that 2-part liquid metal, and do my best to patch the chip. I tried to tape it and run the stem through, but it didn't take 10 pounds before it blew past it. I don't know what else I can do besides what he had originally done, other than run a tube. And that pretty much negates the whole reason I went tubeless in the first place.

So who has a better idea?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:34 am 
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big hucker
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I'd have to think about that... First thing that comes to mind would be clean it up real good and try to get some epoxy to set on top of it. The epoxy could be cleaned up nicely to fit around the stans stem.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:38 am 
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revolting kitty
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American standard stems with an o-ring should do the job.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:30 pm 
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pussy
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I tried this little experiment with an old stem valve. It almost worked as the AS stems except that my o-ring was not good for the job, it was too thin and soft. If you can find a robust rubber o ring, this might be the way to go IMHO.
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:33 pm 
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bad kitty!
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That's a great idea. Just cut off the unused bottom part of the valve stem, so it doesn't protrude as much.
Perhaps some threadlock would be good for the lower nut as well.


Magura :)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:49 pm 
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big hucker
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I agree, very clever! I'll add that to my "bag of hacks". ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:55 pm 
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ridin' dirty kitty!
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Wmac wrote:
American standard stems with an o-ring should do the job.

can you link? i googled and all i found (unsurprisingly) was plumbing related stuff.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:09 pm 
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revolting kitty
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Wow, brilliant hack! Sorry Big T - American Classic. I must have had plumbing on the brain :doh:

http://www.amclassic.com/en/products/co ... valves.php


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:10 pm 
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revolting kitty
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Bontrager makes the same design.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:37 pm 
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ridin' dirty kitty!
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Ahh ok, I see now. Still, I'm not sure the o-ring would cover the crack. the photo doesnt do justice to how big the crack really is and im guessing, just by looking at that AC stem, that im still going to suffer the same fate as the stans stem.

i think marps idea probably comes closest to what i would need to do, or at the very least i would need to do something like that in conjunction with a new stem like that american classic. i wonder if theres even a crack in the wheel that extends beyond what the chip actually removed that would allow leakage regardless of the fix. kinda pissed about the whole deal, and if it wasnt for the dude giving me an xtr rear derailleur "to borrow" (which is still on the bike) i would have gone after him for straight up lying to me about the wheel after all.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:17 pm 
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ridin' dirty kitty!
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And this is what I'm gonna try...

Image

Ideally, I'll fill the crack and back it up a little as well inside the wheel. Give it a day to cure properly, hit it with a rattail to clean it up, and put the stans valve back in.

Also got some permatex #2 just in case there's a leak I can't deal with. My biggest fear is that the epoxy bond fails under pressure with the repeated shock and flex it's likely to experience over the miles, and I end up with a catastrophic failure many miles from the trailhead.

Looks like I'm doomed to keeping a tube in the camelbak all year.

Sent from here. Maybe there.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:52 am 
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lil' hucker
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^ After reading all that and seeing your pictures that's your best bet. Quicksteel or JB-weld. I've used JB weld a ton in the past specifically on my motorcycle with great results, and spots on the gas tank. It will hold no problem.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:27 am 
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stealth kitty
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Hmm.... my rear mavic crossmax has a similar crack.... smaller though, but there is a hairline crack extending about 30mm out along the rim.

Jb weld did not work. Tape plus stans did

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:00 am 
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revolting kitty
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I carry a tube regardless.


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